August 4, 2003
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I love a mystery.
It gives me something to think about.
I’ve been thinking and thinking and consulting reference books and family members, and yet this remains a mystery–several mysteries, really, such as how it came to be and what it means. The most likely solution I can come up with for how it came to be is chemical impairment, although an afflicted Mercury comes to mind as another possibility. As for what it means, I’ll take my examination of that question paragraph by paragraph.
Quoted below is a comment left by PotFeet on my “Dualism versus Monism” blog from yesterday. The single “[sic]” in there was supplied by the author. Just as in the quote from John J. Coughlin in yesterday’s blog, I have opted not to put a “[sic]” after each of her errors in grammar, spelling or syntax. I think her prose is sick enough as it is.
to me, the outstanding binary of western [sic, but give me better] thought is not good/evil, but rather praise/blame. we elevate or condemn by words, and the value structure follows from our actions.
I’d try to supply a “better” alternate for whatever she’s asking for, if only I knew what that is. Her “[sic]” follows just after “western” (Why not just say, “dualistic”, since that, and not geography, was my topic?), so perhaps that’s the term of which she was unsure, but “binary” presents some problems for me… and “the outstanding” in this context is a bit questionable, too.
If we were only discussing binaries, not dualistic opposites, it would relieve some of the problematic issues, but we are, in fact, discussing opposites. A binary is simply a set of two and can be a dyad, two of a kind, as well as a pair of opposites. That semantic quibble is completely aside from the question of whether values follow from actions or if it is actually actions that proceed from values. Who knows what she meant? Perhaps she is implying that society’s “value structure” is a result of the actions of a few who speak out in praise or blame of whatever. That I find questionable. I think people are more likely to act upon their values than they are to form values based upon their actions.
i guess that although monism as you quote/describe it does remove the absolutism prescribed by JCI tradition, it does not touch the inherent ‘purity’ of the binary, or why the notion of opposite is required so much by thinking.
I don’t see how monism would remove anything. What it does is, by contrast, point up and make obvious the absolutistic nature of dualism. Whichever binary is “the” binary to PotFeet, I don’t see where “purity” is inherent in “binary” as a concept per se, nor even in those binaries that happen to be opposed pairs since much has already been said by many humans for a long time about the gray areas between the black and the white. Alternatively if this is what she meant: that binaries are necessarily pure, I say that is nonsense. What could be more purely absolutistic than purity, and what word in the English language is a less pure expression of dualistic extremism than, “binary”?
Anyone who followed my links yesterday to those entries where I have addressed this issue previously, knows my take on the question of why we think dualistically. We tend to think in dualistic terms because we are a bisexual species with bilateral symmetry, which has evolved on a planet that rotates in respect to a light source so that we spend about half our time in darkness and half in the light. Add to that our single satellite at a distance that makes it appear to be about the same size as the daystar appears, and you have quite adequate bases for much myth and copious dualistic speculation.
The notion that “opposite”, that dualism, is “required… by thinking,” is nonsense. I suppose there could be many people who have never thought outside that particular box. Speaking as one who not only thinks outside that box but lives and works in a monistic universe, I know the nonsensical nature of that statement. True, our language, and some but not all other languages, are mired in dualism. Many people (mostly men, I’m afraid) do tend to think only in words, numbers and symbols. Our schools generally teach only linguistic thinking. I think in pictures, diagrams, holistic ideas… and then sometimes try to put them into words. Due to the limitations of language not all of my thoughts fit into words.
a game is played were if anything is named, you must name the opposite. charity, greed. America, Russia. walk, run. it is a rhetorical device, strong in that it makes the audience hear if you use opposites: “i am not telling you tall tales as i am a very short man”.
It degenerates as it goes along, that comment. The dictionary search box in the left module of my main page goes to an indexed collection of 950 dictionaries, some of which include a thesaurus. I searched not all of them, but all the main ones. Nowhere did I find “charity” as the opposite of “greed”. And that was the one out of her three examples of “opposites” that to my mind seemed nearest to fitting.
Joe McCarthy might have viewed Russia as the opposite of America. If I were looking for an opposite to something such as a nation, which truly does not have either an equivalent or an opposite, I would probably choose a geographical opposition. For America, the pair of continents, (this nation here is the United States, not “America”), I would pick a continent in the Eastern Hemisphere–say Asia or Africa.
Walking and running are a dyadic pair, not opposites. To either of those ideas, immobility or vehicular travel would be nearer to opposition than the other one is. A school child conditioned to hearing the hallway monitor shout, “Walk, don’t run,” might see them as opposites. If one is going to play a game, let’s give that game some rules that make some sense.
Her, “rhetorical device, strong in that it makes the audience hear if you use opposites,” just leaves me asking, “Huh?” Is she saying the game is a rhetorical device, as implied by her syntax? Does she mean that the usage of opposites in rhetoric would strongly draw the attention of an audience? Whatever she means here, I think her argument is weak.
so, if anything can be taken with the self-obsessed movement that is postmodernism, be it the questioning of all opposite and binary pairs. the purest form of opposite is the spartial, everything else is metaphoric.
After a while, I just had to give up on this final paragraph. It uses words that are not words, for one thing, and the first part of it, which I hesitate to dignify by the label, “sentence”, might make some sense if one substitutes “by” in place of “with”. Out of OneLook’s 950 dictionaries, only nine even recognized “metaphoric” as a word fragment and they did so with reservations, as in OneLook’s quick definition:
adjective: expressing one thing in terms normally denoting another (Example: “A metaphorical expression”)
“Spartial”, on the other hand, is not one of the 5,906,621 words indexed in OneLook’s 950 dictionaries. Maybe it is too new to have made it into a dictionary and we are all just ‘way behind PotFeet. Maybe she meant “spatial”, which would make a sort of sense, if one ignores that, “everything else is metaphor….” quip. What she wanted to say, and why she felt the need to say it, remains somewhat a mystery to me. If I had to bet, I’d lay money on the chemical impairment. It was the weekend, after all.

Comments (7)
Wow, what a flame!
Seriously, it is just like my Virgo sweety to put more more time, work and thought into her critique than what had been put into what was critiqued.
Keep pullin’ those covers, darlin’!
If there was chemical impairment, it was due to some internal cause rather than an external cause. My voice is confusing, since it is ‘poor’ in terms of grammar and argument, but i am used to babbling to myself, and therefore i have developed some form of pidgin that invokes my own ideas. It is dangerous for sure, as it does not flow as well in the minds of others as it does in mine.
In terms of a geography lesson, America may not be the correct name of the country. The ‘United States’ is questionable too. The United States of America is what i remember it being called. Whenever i hear either ‘United States’ or ‘America’, what is meant, outside of cheekiness, is usually understood. However, if you have encountered actual confusion of the point, please enlighten me.
As for why i used the word ‘western’ — i was basing the praise/blame on something that dates back to the Greeks. I view ‘western’ as a stream of culture that claims roots in certain antiquities, including Ancient Greece and Rome. My ‘sic’ was used because i don’t like the extreme generalization that occurs when using this term.
I was musing on how you could take the rhetorical devices of praise and blame and use them instead of good and evil to describe ‘dualistic’ society. The gist of which would be that good things are praised and bad things are blamed, thereby creating good/bad by speech acts. It is unnecessary to use the other part of my comment, the reference to language binded with thought, to see this argument.
As for language causing thought, i don’t care for the idea. However, i am exposed to it quite often, so when i babble it comes readily. Ignore that i ever made that point. However, language is important because it becomes a primary vessel through which communicate our thoughts. If we assume that experience and non-linguistic thought is worth communicating, then the mechanism of that communication is worth study, since it may be imperfect and it may influence what is being communicated.
My arguments for arbitrary binaries need improvement, but i am not going to try yet. Once i read Derrida, the source, albiet second-hand, of my argument of arbitrary binaries, i will be in a better place to make such arguments.
I would like to state, however, that i am working off a different terminology. The philosophy of dualism, in my head, is the idea that the mind and the physical are seperate. Binaries, however, are paired concepts, often signaled by single words. The idea of a binary does not exclude the space between the concepts. In my mind, any binary with power implies there to be a middle ground between the concepts. Yes, that does not immediately follow from the definition of a binary, but neither does the definition exclude the middle ground.
I have attempted to use proper Academy English here. One independent clause per sentence combined with proper dependent clause use should render this post less eccentric than my usual writings.
So, apparently you can write coherently. I’m left wondering why your original comment was so incoherent.
I’m also curious as to the mechanism whereby your language, be it pidgin or otherwise, “evokes” your thoughts. I would have sworn that it is thought that generally evokes the language in which they are expressed. Could you have meant some other term than “evoke” there?
Oh my.. . .reading PF’s stuff tends to make my stomach hurt, but I shall press on and comment on her comment on SuSu’s comment on her commet. Meta comments rule! Or to put it another way, it’s deep–and getting deeper.
“Rhetorical devices of blame and praise”? I don’t think so. I pressed my own memory and also some dictionaries on-line, and neither praise nor blame came up. Stuff llike “litotes” and “hyperbole” and “connotation vs denotation” did. But I digress.
“As for language causing thought, i don’t care for the idea.” Say what? Or to be more succinct, WTF? Does that mean that she agrees with the thought but simply doesn’t like it? Does it mean that she disagrees? Or does it mean pretty much nothing at all?
The fact is that language–more precisely, which language we use–has a profound effect, not only on what we think, but also on how we think and how we see the world.
In one of his brilliant essays (collected in his book, Collected Essays), Aldous Huxley referred to language as a sort of map of the world. The more languages one knows, the more precise, specific, and ultimately useful is one’s map of the world. Take the German word “weltschmertz” , for instance. It has no synonym in English, but many Englishspeakers, from Byron to most college freshmen, have felt the emotion. Or the Japanese word “wabi.” Again, it has no equivalent word in English, but everyone who has watched more than one episode of Antiques Roadshow is probably at least somewhat conversant with what it denotes.
When I read SuSu’s critiques of the less than 100% precise writings of others (including myself), I am reminded of the tribe that has only one word in their language for all shades and variants of the colors blue and green. Let’s say it is “brap.” To them, the sky is brap, the ocean is brap, all varieties of turquoise are brap, all sorts of aquamarine and sapphire and emerald and prehnite and chrysacolla and chrysophrase and grass and snot are all the same, all brap.
SuSu knows better and does her level best to enlighten the rest of us who are less discerning.
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~honeyl/Rhetoric/rhet1-3.html
end of paragraph 2.
Pathetic… calling “praise or blame” “rhetorical devices” because those words appear in Aristotle’s Rhetoric. One could just as easily pick out any noun occurring in the text and call it a rhetorical device.
http://www.onelook.com/?url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical+device
If one must argue, try to find stronger arguments.
“brap?”
ohhh…i love that man of your’s, K.