Question: If you know, and if you have the inclination, could you summarize the rationale behind Sutphen’s view that our purpose on earth is to transcened fear and manifest unconditional love?

As it stands, I see a man who, with much probability, has been sucked into the vortex that is our cultural idealization of love, and the demonization of fear as being an unequivocal adversary.

Rather than embracing the entireity of our humanity and seeing that every emotion (and accompanying physiological reaction) has its purpose, Sutphen decided to impose some black-and-white, ill-fitting value judgements into the picture.

The problem isn’t fear, the problem is maladaptive fear. Likewise, love can also be expressed maladaptively. The idea that we need to transcend one and embrace the other is wayyy too absolutist.

short version: but adrenlin savez us from tha saber t00f tigaz and bad guyz, and to much love will make you too merciful and thus vulnerable to ur enemies

so: explanations/counter-points? ’tis a good way to learn.

I guess that’s more a request formulated as a question… not that it matters too much. I should take more time with the words i use

@SuSu - ty for the considered reply.

Not exactly – bad inference, especially since I mentioned running from saber tooth tigers! (facetiously, of course). Prudent caution (which isn’t really fear), anxiety, and the kind of fear that brings an adrenalin rush; I consider them all useful in the right context. Prudent caution seems to be the most useful in the most amount of situations. But the key is finding a balance. For example, many people get way too overstressed because they worry too muchabout events in advance. They’d be better off minimizing their anxiety and upping the prudent caution – not as easy as it sounds because they might lack the tools or understanding to do it.

The fear aspect of the flight-or-fight response (the sudden, adrenaline-based fear which panic attacks emnate from when taken to excess) must serve some adaptive function or it wouldn’t have persisted or perhaps even materialized in the first place.

In most situations where a poor response would be to outright run (such as in the case of someone with a fear of public speaking), fear is rather paralyzing because it’s harder to articulate sentences and make use of those higher brain functions… and physically… well, you know, heart pounding, harder to just plain walk and all of that. In a situation where I would be avoiding eminent physical danger, like a bear on top of me trying to maul me, all that adrenalin, increased heart rate, digestive processes slowed down and muscles being primed with oxygen would help. Fear is supposed to be stressful on the body because it quickly musters up whatever is needed for a good “flight” from a threatening stimuli. It’s a trade-off: biochemical stress for primed body. But we don’t seem well-equipped to deal with long bouts of it… long bouts can be very damaging. And it’s usually not a good fear to have when navigating the complexities of modern society; again, prudent caution is better here.

“Fear causes overreaction, perception of danger where none exists, and an inability to cope with danger.” – If you’re percieving danger where none exists, then your fear has become somewhat maladaptive. It can be an advantegous thing to our safety that fear makes people hypersensitive to potential dangers in their environment (for brief periods). “Mistakes”, like a fear of something that poses little threat… that’s kind of an unfortunate side-effect, perhaps the product of excessive fear. I’ve learned to temper my fear response to nearly all situations, and many I no longer fear at all.

I consider most phobias to be based to some extent on maladaptive fear – in the case of arachnophobia, anything more than prudent caution is probably not the best response. What you’re describing in the last thing I quoted from you actually sounds more like hysterical panic; fear taken to excess. Panicking to the point of hysteria.. now that will screw most people over and it’s seemingly disadvantageous in nearly all situations – but I’m sure evolutionary psychologists have come up with a few theories related to panic.

I’m not entirely making the connection between fear and psychopathology beyond something obvious like an anxiety disorder. Can you think of an example? Like say, sociopathy/psychopathy/antisocial personality disorder. Where does fear factor into that? Alternetly, offer another example.

About the “sponsoring thoughts” idea… I’ve noticed it too. Walsch is on to something when it comes to the dichotomous nature of love and fear. Each can hamper the other.

“The self-preservation issue is a non-issue where love is concerned.” – Now that you say it, agreed. If your sponsoring thought is fear or threat-based, you’ll be concerned with self-preservation and protection. If you’re living in a state of loving-kindness, it almost doesn’t matter.

Yes, cults usually work on a combination of fear, dependency, fulfillment of people’s emotional needs and isolation. You’ve lived an eventful life, have you ever been involved with any?

Lucky you decided to outright state that the question is rhetorical. I enjoy answering rhetorical questions.

I think you often infer, or otherwise pick up, a whole lot more than you let on.

“A woman in the group the guy had been intimidating gave him a shocked, disapproving look, and said, “But I always thought you were a spiritual person.”

- I love when people shatter other people’s perceptions of the way something is supposed to be. Their reactions are amusing, and I enjoy provoking similar sorts.

I also have an attraction and interest toward the unusual. Those around me seem to have more of an aversion, fear (of a kind based on insecurity of their own beliefs and ways of life) or disdain toward it. At this point, it would be harmful to them, as well as not good for my own interests, to shatter their reality bubble, and i’d be unlikely to succeed in doing so. Instead, they would just shield themselves against me.

It’s not hard at all to control people’s minds, there are so many techniques available. I know a Christian or three, the type where these techniques are used, and they’re coming along very well. not much i can do without alienating them but stand on the sidelines and observe

I didn’t know what a Penitente was until I looked it up. They apparently re-enact the crucifixion, which reminded me of certain AZN/pacific countries with a similar practice. Again, your question is somewhat rhetorical, but your past life might count. I’m not sure how much bearing a past life might have on the present (my criteria for countingness or not). You’d have more of an understanding on this than I do.

How long have reasonably-fast cars been widely distributed and promogulated throughout America? A century or less? Rabbits are not going to adapt genetically with some hardwired response for a while, but in my [miniscule] experience they’ve learnt to mostly avoid open roads unless they find it necessary to cross. Rabbit’s skittishness (something which is universal, presumably does have a decent genetic basis and would be hard to condition them out of) would’ve paid off before the invention of faster cars, and I’m sure it does pay off in other situations. Gotta avoid those foxes, hawks, and other predators. Other animals and even people also seem to freeze in response to sudden, unexpected light. it might not be fear entirely responsible for paralyzing them, but maybe because rabbits are perplexed by it, and shocked by being put in the spotlight rather than percieving it as a danger, and while they’re sitting there, feeling befuddled.. *BANG* or *SPLAT*, unless they sense possible danger, in which case they run like they would in other situations.

I was also beginning to think that we define fear and love differently, and that discussion is futile at this point. Time must pass.

whatever kind of love I’m now talking about is almost a weak vaccine agaisnt fear and insecurity-grounded emotions. it’s kinda cool

Oh, you say Dianetics left you with a “funny” feeling. I wonder if that was intentional. Did you feel a tad spaced-out, or somethign different entirely?

I already replied to this yesterday. Guess it didn’t finish submitting.

Your description (of love) is spot-on, it’s what I meant to say. Pity we have one word for about 10 different things.

I wasn’t really trying to give a comprehensive or fully-encapsulating understanding of fear, just a vague piece of the puzzle. Kind of like schopenhauers theories of mate selection. he was wrong, the ideas were sparse but he had a piece of the puzzle; and a fuzzy idea of what was going on. 

edit: omg, my other reply showed up!