February 9, 2006

  • CENSORSHIP

    Among some of the Featured_Grownups,
    there is currently a discussion of censorship.  I have not yet
    read anyone else’s entries.  This is not because I am not
    interested in their views.  It is primarily because I might be
    induced to enter into an argument or influenced to try not to repeat what others have said already, so I
    want to get my ideas down here before I am exposed to anyone else’s.

    Don’t let that mislead you.  For the most part, my ideas on
    censorship are other people’s ideas.  I can barely speak on the
    topic without quoting someone.  Here are a few of my favorite quotes on, around and about censorship:

    “Freedom begins when you
    tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.”  [Mrs. Grundy defined]
     
    “Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.” [If you don't get the connection between secrecy and censorship, think about it.]

    “Limiting the freedom of news ‘just a little bit’ is in the same category with the classic example ‘a little bit pregnant’.”

    “The whole principle is wrong; it’s like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can’t eat steak.”

    Those four are all from one writer:  Robert Anson Heinlein.

    “REVOLUTION, n. A bursting of the boilers which usually takes place when the safety valve of public discussion is closed.”

    – Ambrose Bierce, The Enlarged Devil’s Dictionary (1906)

    “Fear of serious injury cannot alone
    justify suppression of free speech and assembly. Men feared witches and
    burned women. It is the function of speech to free men from the bondage
    of irrational fears.”

    – U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

    “The press is easier to strangle than to look in the eyes.”

    – Winston Churchill

    “Restriction on free thought and free
    speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one
    un-American act that could most easily defeat us.”

    –U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

    “Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost.”

    and…

    “I am opposed to any form of tyranny over the mind of man.”

    – Thomas Jefferson

    “Censorship of anything, at any time, in
    any place, on whatever pretense, has always been and always will be the
    last resort of the boob and the bigot.”

    – Eugene Gladstone O’Neill, American playwright

    There are some differences between me
    and some of the writers quoted above.  Unlike Brandeis, that other
    Douglas (with one ess), Churchill and Jefferson, I am not a dead white
    man, and I have nowhere near the socio-political clout they had during
    their lifetimes.   But, like Eugene O’Neill and Robert A.
    Heinlein, my work has offended Mrs. Grundy and she has on certain
    occasions done what she could to muzzle me.  I was denied a place
    and a voice in some venues.  I responded to that by finding other
    venues where I could express myself fully.
    I cannot perceive any benefit to society or the planet from any form of
    censorship.  As much as I deplore much of the nonsense and
    self-serving bullshit I see and hear, I would not advocate shutting
    anyone up. 

    I think that parents who lie to their children or seek to shield them
    from the truth are misguided and are ultimately committing a subtle but
    destructive form of child abuse.  I would not, however, seek to
    stop them.  They get what they deserve when the kids grow up and
    learn the truth.  What I do object to, however, is any attempt a
    parent might make to abridge the right of another person to tell the
    truth within the hearing of those children the lying parent is trying
    to “shield.”

    An amusing instance of this occurred during this Christmas season just
    past.  On public radio, someone being interviewed had said, in
    connection with some recent egregious example of government bullshit,
    “If you believe that, you probably believe in Santa Claus.”  An
    irate listener complained to NPR, saying that he resented the fact that
    his young child heard it and began questioning him about Santa. 
    The news reader who reported that bit of listener feedback tried and
    failed to completely suppress the amusement in his voice.

    I am sure that some people find my frequent references to the Santa
    Claus lie to be tiresome.  Tough shit, I say.  A lie is
    a lie, even when it is “merely” a polite hypocrisy or a “little”
    “white” lie.  I have no objection to someone who truly believes in
    Santa Claus expressing those beliefs.  My objection is to the
    wanton and willful propagation of falsehood.  Lies debase and
    degrade the liars as much as they deceive those being lied to. 
    Lies lead to secrecy and censorship in the interest
    of covering the lies.

    I am wholeheartedly in favor of the truth,
    the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  The “truth” I’m
    alluding to here is a personal thing.  I don’t mean that some
    deluded soul should be hushed because some supposedly wiser or better
    informed being judges his words to be false.  Truth is not always
    factual, not always “real” except in the mind of the one telling his
    own truth, but unless it is allowed to be told there is no chance for
    anyone to do any fact-checking or give any constructive feedback. 
    Even the “wise” and well-educated ones can be blind-sided by a radical
    new idea.   Can we afford to silence anyone just because his
    ideas are deemed false or dangerous by someone else?  I think not.


    Image by Frank Miller for the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund

Comments (32)

  • Hi,

    I posted some pieces of my life today that I don’t think I’ve ever shared with you. Just thought I’d let you know.

  • “what is truth is not always popular and what is popular is not always the truth..”

  • Love it SuSu, especially the part about lying to children.

  • Interesting thoughts and very well written and RYC: no, your a very smart and careful reader lol, I do that all the time. Thanks In my defence Theologian cafe gave me like 5 min to write that post as a counter point post. I rushed.

  • No, I was just being a sarcastic bastard.

    Ahh, Frank Miller.

  • Love your post!!

    I definitely have to agree with you on whether those “featured grownups” should be called the upper eschelon as well. When I wrote that statement, I was referring to Drakonskyr and Dan the Theologian, and as a blanket term for those who generally make featured frequently. But judging from how some of them are asserting themselves (assuming the authority to patrol blogs?!) and how certain ones have spoken/written, I certainly have little respect for them.

    I loved how you commented to the rest of my post. Definitely. You will be welcome anytime.

  • here here!

    thanks for the sub :)

  • Very interesting cartoon.  :robodance:

  • I recgonize the difference between being naked and being naked and taking pictures and putting them on line to generate comments about sexual things…naked is ok…porn is ok…it isnt ok if the pictures are of minors…thats illegal and kinda sick…

    Christians cannot claim you are not a Christian…only you can claim not to be a Christian.  It isnt about religion.  You dont have to be religious to be a Christian.  Christ certianly wasnt.

    The discussion is about Xanga rules being followed.  If a parent allows a minor child to have a Xanga site cause Xanga says they do not allow porn and Xanga allows porn and the kid sees it then the parent has been dooped…thats wrong.  Xanga should just say we allow porn up front so parents can make other decisions.  Its about following through with what they promise. 

    Vigilantism?  I dont get where you see that… unless you think us parents with teenage daughters who also have Xangas shouldnt be pissed about the sex sites…maybe you could clear that up for me.

  • When I first moved to LA in 1997, I worked for about nine months for the Museum of Tolerance. The museum teaches tolerance through the Holocaust. They do this by using the Holocaust as an example of what happens when tolerance is lost. I was a tour guide. In any case, one of the first things the Nazis did, besides take over the schools, was to outlaw freedom of speech. We are certainly starting to see some that in the US, no matter what any one says. And while I do not agree with hate speech, I do not think censoring is the way to handle it. The question then becomes: who decides what is okay to say and what isn’t?

    One thing I liked about working there was when I gave tours to sheriffs and police officers. All of them, hands down, believed firmly in the freedom of speech. That brought some comfort at least.

    hugs,
    wf

  • Nobody cares about censorship when it comes to my site.  Other people tease about putting up pictures of naked people to seem as though they are controversial and get comments.  I really do post pictures of naked people.  So far, nobody cares.

  • I agree child porn definitely has got to go!

    As for the Santa Clause reference…lol…we had an incident in my house at Christmas..seems my stepson’s Mom continues to tell him there’s a Santa and because he’s 11 I assumed he knew the truth..my kids do! He didn’t and he was heartbroken. I softened the blow by telling him that once there was a Saint who left goodies to poor children and he was considered Santa (to my knowledge)..I told him that if he believes in the “magic” of Christmas then Santa lives in his heart.

  • Fuck censorship.  I lost a good friend on Xanga because I refused to censor myself.  Go me!

  • I think a lot of what is going on is that Xanga has a TOS of what is and isn’t allowed, and they’re not followin’ it very well. I don’t have any problems with my son seeing nudity and/or mild sexuality. I would be uncomfortable with him, at five years old, seeing pornography, especially if I wasn’t there to help him understand what he is seeing…but, really, can a 5 year old really understand some of it? On the whole, he sees nudity on a regular basis. As a 3D artist, the base before anything is done to my work is a naked figure. He knows what breasts are, knows what a vagina is, knows what a penis is. I don’t suppress his need for self-gratification, because, frankly, it’s healthy. I would have problems with it if, when he was allowed legally to join communities (I believe most don’t allow anyone under 13) geared toward his age group, he was surrounded by content that was either blatantly pornagraphic or geared to be sexually predatory. Sexual predators are a real fear for most parents, and a lot of them use sites like Xanga, MySpace, Facebook, and the rest to groom and seduce children. No child should experience that.
    I’m not a big one for censorship. Xanga’s TOS forbids extreme nudity, so I’ve moved my art and works in progress to my personal site, where I have more control over who sees my work (most of the joy of showing WIPs to my friends is lost when people I don’t know just rip my work) AND am not bound by a TOS of someone else. But, personal responsibility has to come into pay at some point. I’m sick of seeing Xanga in the news for bad things, like kids making death threats against teachers, kids being seduced by molesters, and someone who just happened to have a xanga page oh-so-long ago happened to commit a crime. But, I think it’s long past the time where we can say that there’s more than 5%, if that, of though-provoking content on here. Hell, even content that’s not typed in “text me” speak. You’re one of the last of a large group of what was though provoking content. I hope that you don’t stop writing any time soon, because I enjoy the brain exercise :)

  • RYC: Yes, the pics are what I thought you might like to see.

    This is a great post…even if it is off topic.

    This is another area in which you have opened my eyes and I have seen great payback. My realtionship with my kids is so much more open and honest now. Since I stopped censoring them, they feel very comfortable in revealing everything about themselves and their interests. The fact that they are now so revealing means I get the opportunity to guide them away from danger, if I see a need. I’ve also found that they don’t have such a huge facination with subject matter (such as pornography) that other kids their own age have (who’s parents freak out about it). Heck, if my son wants to look at naked pictures he can just go to my bookshelf and borrow one of my tantric sex books and know that I’m cool with it.

    Bzutu paid me a visit yesterday. I’ve posted his message here already and am waiting on a response from George about posting it on the 11:11 site. It’s my first so I’m not sure of the proceedure over there. I am also dealing with a bit of doubt. I’m wondering why one of the most well known Midwayers would come to me. It may be just a ‘lack of self-esteem” issue but I want to be sure I’m not just being delusional here.

    Oh….speaking of 11:11….your IP address has 11.11 in it. Did you know that?

    Love you!

    Angie

  • I think most of the people that are involved in this are ultimately just against child porn.

  • Thanks for your comments on my site.

    “What I do object to, however, is any attempt a parent might make to abridge the right of another person to tell the truth within the hearing of those children the lying parent is trying to “shield.”"

    Depends on the venue.  If in my house, I have every right to refuse the seaker from saying what they will to my child. Otherwise, I agree.

  • “refuse the seaker “  should have been “speaker”.  Damned Digital Dyslexia!!

  • Excellent post on Censorship— I agree! Esp. about lying about Santa or any other entity! But I usually refrain and respect others opposite belief- choosing to keep quiet because NOBODY wants to find out they are wrong in what they believe from somebody else….

    RYC: You are right, this really isn’t so much about Censorship, I didn’t realize it till I wrote my opinion. It IS more and more about the Terms of Agreement and violating them…

  • Thank you for your comment on my site.  I agree that this is REALLY not at all about censorship (which I am opposed to generally).  It is about Xanga either enforcing their TOS or changing it to reflect the TRUTH (which I am also for) so that the public is not misled and “play” here with a false sense of security.

  • Brilliant post.  I especially liked the part about “truth”.  So many people have their panties in a bunch over something they have no control over.  Sure, child porn is bad, yes there is a TOS I’m so sick of hearing about it.  And you’re not supposed to eat on the bus and people do it every fucking day…what can you do, police everyone and everything?  Instead of trying to control external things which they cannot, they should focus inward, get off the computer and handle their business.  Then of course, there is always LiveJournal or blogger…I’m so over this topic already.   Hence “Beating a Dead Horse”  lol.

    And thanks for stopping by.

    Mrs. Grundy can go fuck herself.

  • Good post.Yes, the term “censorship” was misleading, but Denise was only repeating the term that was being tossed around multiple sites, having been started primarily by Theo. I almost responded to his first “censorship” post with a comment disagreeing with his term, and later wished I had. To me, it started the argument off on the wrong footing. :holyshit: <<I like that guy LOL

    Anyway, even though you were unaware of what this was all about, you know now, and wrote a good, thought-provoking post about the term “censorship”. :goodjob:

  • I am not a proponent of mass censorship– who decides what should and shouldn’t be censored would be my biggest fear…

  • excellent post.

    tony

  •  i have never been one for strikeing the iron while its hot  but i am a lover of all art and censorship doesnt support that and you cant love art and love secrecy  and isnt most of this art anyway

  • Interesting point. 8)

    your name means “milk” in Bahasa Indonesian.

  • i’m loving the currently reading reference on this.
    hee!

  • Very well written – and I agree with it.

    Truth is relative to the individual.

    As far as censorship goes – it should also be individual in that, if I don’t wish to see/read/listen to something, I’ll censor myself in that regard – if “I” don’t like it, “I” won’t watch/read/hear whatever it is that I don’t like, and sometimes even then I may still do it just to get a different take on something.

    I do not know if this makes any sense, but if I have (and I do) a set of opinions, judgments and beliefs, I do not like to know that they are so set in concrete that I wouldn’t take new information into account.  (Still unsure if it makes any sense, but that’s how my brain works.)

  • That’s a great post about censorship, I’ve often wondered if I ever have kids, will I feed them the Santa Claus bullshit? I’d like not to, but I suspect it will be out of my control.

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